Yeah I think it's just too wet. Now that it's dryer it seems better. or should I use a 1" hole? (Hence my dislike of top mount burners; though with proper ventilation this is not so much an issue.). I'll be fine tuning today and I think I'll go with the 45 degree instead of on top. Mounted the burners, cut two new mig tips to half the diameter of the tee for an air gap and fired it off. It's pretty hard to get a picture of that though so I put a video on youtube, I'm no expert but turning up the pressure helped mine stable out. 1- What kind of burner does it have? Thanks so much for the help, Thomas. Another issue with people building forges who aren't familiar with burners is blocking off the ports nearly completely to make it get hotter. I sure wish there was someone that lived close to me for some one on one hands on advice while fine tuning. Two most common ways this happens are: 1: not enough ventilation and so the percentage of exhaust products in the ambient air goes up---often a problem in winter as the forge makes such a nice shop heater as it's trying to kill you. I live in  Denver. 3- What is the forge lined with? I forged out merchant couplers(thread protectors) to mimic the rough 1:12 taper for the flare nozzles. By   You cannot paste images directly. I figured out how to make and tune a "Jet Ejector" from simple plumbing and basic shop skills about 20 years ago. It's cheaper to pay up front and save over the long term than gradually upgrade over time, honest, been there done that, wish I hadn't. I currently have 1" with 3/4" chase on them. Or maybe split the difference with a .030? It resemble those of other t burners I've seen. As a blacksmith gas forge the atmospheric forge is a good starter gas forge. 2- Does the burner go through the top, center?? I will be using this forge to forge stuff and forge weld Damascus. 7- How much restriction is there in the front and back doors? You use the same stuff to judge the burn as with a blown burner. Forget stressing over "I want to make damascus." Side note: VENTILATION---are you getting enough air into the shop? Frosty is one of the few I would recommend regarding gas forges. If I was going to have only one I would get a blower one ( have one of those too ). DIY Forge Burner Complete Parts List; As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. Re: Propane forge burner design and tuning Another good site for info is the Blacksmithing for Beginners page on Facebook. Also use a long round file to smooth and clean the interior of the burner tube, same for the jet tube prior to mounting it. Elevation (above sea level) has a big effect but being in Florida that should not be an issue for you. The naturally aspirated burner is easily capable of reaching welding heat, and above, but it is easy to "defeat" your burners if you create any "back-pressure" in your forge chamber. I was thinking of putting the new holes directly on top instead of at a 45. The 1" burner is the burner I use. Buzzkill made a good point that I was overlooking: back pressure from the forge. The forge body is round anyway. Just STOP talking to people who made something work or FIGURED OUT HOW to make one work. × No matter what you do though, hard brick will suck up a LOT of fuel without getting hot enough. Anywhere from 4-25. The discussion is kind of painful, but there's some good info in the archive pages. Ideas, threads, insults? I've searched the web and have tried to search this forum to no avail and am wondering if there is a good thread, ect. This is a piece of scrap It makes a difference. Also are you supposed to have it reccessed down in the pipe? IF you want to try and figure it out on your own with the enthusiastic help of random people on the internet have at it, I'll leave you alone. This acts as a restricter plate or choke to reduce the amount of air entering the burner, helping to reach the correct propane to air mixture. What you're trying to achieve is a neutral to slightly fuel rich flame with little to no secondary or tertiary flame envelope. August 2, 2016 in Gas Forges. How long is the mixing tube? My double 1" burner forge is more than capable of heating 46lbs of steel to a white temperature! Ok, I built a Frosty T burner. So yesterday i asked about forges (i did ALOT of reasearch) and I decided to build one with a t burner (actually 2 ). that might explain how to best adjust the forge. The jets point directly down the middle of the burner tube. Upload or insert images from URL. Payback for better forge liner is sooner than you think, even at only $2.50 a gl. Paste as plain text instead, × If you choose to go with a 3/4" burner, stick to his plans they are well put together! Do you have pictures? Thanks, Chris. This will help even out the heat along the forge and it will allow me to block off the back side of the forge for single burner half forge. The most important factor you MUST build to is the size of the forge chamber, it's VOLUME. I presume you have a LOT of experience of damascus and forge welding to go with the LOT of research on gas forges, so how many years of both do you have? Q.   Your link has been automatically embedded. Whatever works to get you there is what you want to use. it seems that I,m getting an oxidizing flame. One more question though. If you've trimmed a .035 tip enough so that it protrudes less than halfway across the openings when viewed from the side of the T and you still have a significantly rich (light blue to greenish) flame then you'll want to try again with a .030 tip. Are Y you using a 3/4"" t or 1" with 3/4" chase? What BlackMetalViking said. (When I relined my blown forge, the gas pressure that worked fine for the previous runs now was too hot and melted a piece that was left in too long...). Putting a 1.5" blown burner on a 12" forge with a 3" chamber will look like a jet taking off no matter what you set the air/gas at. The only difference between what I have and the directions is the 1/8mipX1/4 flare adapters that were available were 90* elbows. Now that we’ve completed the burner we’re ready to start on the housing. My eyeball guesstimation says the tube is too long. ????? Less of a problem for burners sourcing their air LOWER than HIGHER. All this is why you want a burner that is sized to fit your forge. Kao wool? Neutral is usually best for most smithing though I have used an extremely oxidizing atmosphere to put a rough "skin" on a dragon I was forging---had to remove the very thick scale leaving the rough steel it created. I won't get back to it until tomorrow. If yo need a hand ask me. A. I've had my old Mankel Farrier for a few weeks now and have gone through about 15-gallons of propane banging away on metal, mild steel, stainless, and copper. But the NC 2 burner is easy to use. Clear editor. How do I tune a Side Arm Burner? Questions, questions, questions. Fire-Brick?   Pasted as rich text. (I have 2 10'x10' roll up doors on opposite sides of the shop along the general wind direction *AND* a 1'x30' ceiling vent and open eaves!) Gary. Note that most forges will need tweaking again after they come up to full heat and if you do not use a regulator they will need tweaking as the pressure in the bottle changes---use a regulator!!!!! Daddystayshome.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to amazon.com. Be sure the flare, or straight nozzle, is adjusted correctly in conformance with the tuning instructions. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Looks like 3/4" but pics can be deceiving. Pick an established forge and burner design and use it a while. What color should the dragon's breath be, how much should I open the propane valve on the forge, blower aperature, ect. I planned on covering the brick with the kast-o-lite and then a layer of plistix just like the kaowool. If you want to make hammers, tools and Damascus - this is the burner for you! And I would have to agree 100% about having a vented shop opposed to a warm and toasty death chamber. How long did you run it? Once you know what you're doing is time to start tweaking things to what suits you best. This burner does take some time to fine tune but it is very efficient; it gets the forge very hot very quickly. In your situation I'd probably be trying the .030 mig tip, but it is possible that you may need to go smaller. (some that don't have a choke can be adjusted by adding a strip of tape or aluminum foil to cover part of the open end (the COLD END) I have about 2" of insulation in my forge. × Paste as plain text instead, × Nothing would stabilize unless I choked it. Set a fuel rate (pressure) and then add air until you get the noisiest burn---that's generally neutral then you can add or subtract a bit of air to get what you want if you don't want it neutral. You can do a lot of heating of metal in this size of space but you do get creative in figuring out how to put odd shaped steel in the forge chamber. Turning the Ts can be helpful in two ways. The plans have the rules of thumb for the ratios to make different sized burners. That doesn't look to be a problem with yours but it is a plus. Use a hand held propane torch to light, and relight, the burner and later to light the forge once the burner(s) are installed. We're on a pretty tight budget, so I don't have the kaowool and castable or the IR reflective coating to finish my "good" forge yet. And last question what length is good to start with? 6- Does the propane bottle freeze after over 1/2 hour of use?? Too much and you are throwing away gas (and money). Atmospheric are a bit trickier; but the better burners are easier to tune that the not so good ones. I bought some 3/4" tees hoping to get the mig too closer into the burner tube, but I'm not sure if they will work. Professional looking results and easy of moving would make this design a good choice for taking to craft fairs or similar venues for on-site metal forging or glass blowing. At every fuel pressure there is a corresponding amount of air to get the burn *you* want. The burner operates by creating a low pressure in the throat of the burner bell when the high velocity gas stream injects down the throat of the burner. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. A relatively smooth, not rough, sound is desired. Display as a link instead, × Atmospheric burners generally have some sort of choke plate that adjusts how much air the burner can draw in. 12-15 lbs of pressure for welding and about 8 for just forging Tony G Indicated a piece of pipe to center, threaded the tee on, drilled, and tapped before moving anything. Torch file sets work best. Blown burners are generally easy to tune. tank plus time gas end hassle. Takes a minute to get going but after a minute or so it's going better. I also want to be able to use the forge upright for melting aluminum and other alloys. Idk, I still have alot of playing around to do tomorrow. And ive been talking to a friend on Instagram and he says 1.25 inch pipe for the burner and 1.5x1.5x1.25 inch tee but it looks like people on here use 3/4 inch pipe for the burner tubes. First it gets the air intakes farther from exhaust gasses from the forge opening. Set a fuel rate (pressure) and then add air until you get the noisiest burn---that's generally neutral then you can add or subtract a bit of air to get what you want if you don't want it neutral. This is about the size of R. Reil's mini - forge and is adequately heated by a single R. Reil EZ burner The rule of thumb is about 240 cu in of chamber for one EZ burner. Upload or insert images from URL. You don't know how to make a pattern weld, how in the world do you expect to design a forge to do it in? I've posted a T burner plan in as simple language as I my dented brain can and I had help. Note that neutral should also be the hottest so if you look at the refractory opposite the burner when it glows the brightest it's neutral---better for kaowool as it heats/cools fast when adjusting compared to a hard firebrick. I'm wondering of I am adjusting my forge to get the most heat out of it, or if I could adjust things a bit better. I use a band saw, but they will cut easily with a hack saw or even a wood hand saw. A kind of soft medium blue color is what you're after here. I'm getting REALLY TIRED of trying to help people debug half donkey muck ups some random guy on social media "helped" them with. Re-run meaning??? 8- Is the flame blue or yellow? Grussingcustomknives, I am making 2 3/4" T burners. The brick likes a flat surface to sit on. The forge is small enough that I can run the burner at under 5 psi and keep the interior at a good working temperature.However, this burner design does work well in larger forges, many large forges even use multiple burners. Pick an established forge and burner design and use it a while. IF you want to try and figure it out on your own with the enthusiastic help of random people on the internet have at it, I'll leave you alone. If you want to bring say 2,000 cu/in to welding temperature then a 1.25" T burner is what you want. For a 12” forge they can be left full thickness. Maybe not though. Interior size is 12 inches long and 6 inches wide 6 inches high. Available in two sizes, 1" and 1/2". To tune the flame of the burner, some metal tape was applied to the bottom of the burner tube. The distance the jet is compared to the brass fitting isn't too meaningful, it's where it is in the air intake ports that counts. It seems like the gas orifice needs to be further into the burner tube. I built them directly off the plans, using tweco .035 mig tips. They look to be running a little lean but not bad. I am actually designing a second forge around two of these burners because they are that good. A typical efficiency 3/4" burner will heat about 300 cubic inches, so I am going with two burners. Scary Mc,   Your previous content has been restored. In general I use 1/2 way looking straight through the air ports and usually have to trim farther back. Light the burner carefully, with a medium to low pressure setting, and slide the 1" diameter nozzle tube in until the flame goes out. It's actually not too bad. Frosty's T burner plans have a complete parts break down. Clear editor. There are a great many variables involved with any forge system, insulation "R" value, exhaust opening area, smoothness of burner penetrations, elevation, quality of forge and burner construction, jet diameter, tuning, etc., to name but a few. I really want to see some pics please. Since glass blowers use copious amounts of gas and efficiency is paramount, I was immediately curious … I'll get an update and post back later today, Alright. Perfect! By color and secondary flames it's burning pretty rich trim the jet back farther about 1/32" at a time and remember to clean any burs from the hole.   Pasted as rich text. I used a milling machine to drill the holes in the tees. I'm going to drag up this dead thread to seek advice on my build. If you are working large stock or a lot of pieces you may want to turn the fuel up and adjust the burn to put a lot of heat in the forge. I'll keep you all posted. tuning should be done outside the forge, with the burner clamped in a vise, where the flame and sound can be easily observed and heard. Feel free to move it if I've done a bad, bad thing. I'm going directly by your plans but I got 8" 3/4"  pipes instead of 6". To tune your burner you will need to remove it from the forge and work in open air. You can experiment with making the flames more rich by partially blocking the intake ports with tape. First I used a .025 mig tip because I've heard apparently it's better for higher altitudes, but the .035 seems to get a better flame. I know they won't be as efficient, and the burners likely won't act te same as in the 20lb propane cylinder forge, but I'm just hoping to get a hang on how they're supposed to work. I picked up the 3/4 on my way home. Also I think I need to install some air baffles. × 9- Who is near you that can give you advice. But Sam is right. If you repeat the process with that tip and still have a heavily reducing flame then you'll want to drop back to the .025 tip. How far down should the tip sit in the T? Choose a safe location so as not to set fire to the house while concentrating on the end of the burner. Do this outside since there will be some escape of unburned propane. Choked it was very stable through the whole range, but it lacked "fury" if that means anything. I'll take some pics today when I get to work. I bought some hard bricks yesterday to make a little bench too cubby forge to make some stuff to hopefully sell at a craft fair coming up next month. :mellow: Burner Mounting: The Nanomongo burner, or T-Rex, produce such intense vacuum and gas stream pressure that they can be mounted horizontally along the base mounting structure of the forge, and a supply pipe run up to a short nozzle mounted in the forge shell. Test it IN the forge, the confined volume effects back pressure and combustion air induction, they perform differently in or out of the forge. Don't know about the Diamond Back, But I have a 2 burner knife makers forge from NC Tooling and it works great , even for welding. Depending on if I have both ends open or not it will occasionally fall out of tune where the flame goes out and the gas is ignighted my the other burner. A PERFECT example of why you should NOT consult people in the internet. read the instructions for T burners as posted by the person who invented them ( AFAIK ) and has been making them for 20 years rather than taking advice from those who have made 1 of them. My flames look green. I know YouTube is not a reliable source of info, but my flames do. May clear up when it heats up. March 6, 2012 in Gas Forges, I'm starting this thread here as I think it might get a few more hits than in the forge section. Idk. To tune the burner start with the locking nut loose, slide the nozzle out so that about 1" sticks out beyond the end of the 3/4" burner tube. Thanks in advance! If you go to vibrant blue, especially with some purplish hues in it then you've trimmed too far and need to start over with a different tip. 5- What is the tip/gas jet diameter? If you want to build a T burner search out the Illustrated burner plan here on Iforge and STOP talking to other people. If I add more air(or choke less) the flames go out. For knifemaking I often run a bit reducing to lower scaling and decarburization---however this also increases CO production so VENTILATE! Remove any constricting rim or rough projections in the throat with a round file. I have to choke one side completly off and almost 20% of the other side to get it to stabilize. Ribbon Forge Burner Instructions by John Emmerling About five years ago, a glass artist purchased the building next to mine and set up his glass blowing studio. If it's positioned such that some of that air containing exhaust from the forge can be drawn into the burner and so re-run through it----CO production will SPIKE. What pressure are you running at? Secondly they wont be fighting each other for air. Use at least 2" of insulation around the chamber: The first inch or two should be Kaowool - the outer layer can be pearlite or vermiculite. A forge built with a Freon Bottle supplies this. I need forge welding temp!! Remember that CO is cumulative in a leaky bucket system---you can build it up faster than you get rid of it. Once you know what you're doing is time to start tweaking things to what suits you best. I would recommend a max of 250 cubic inch forge for the 1" burner. If you've verified that your jet is properly aligned with the mixing tube and you've built the burner exactly to the specifications given then you can start to work on the tuning by trimming the mig tips. Who's plans are you following and have you asked the author? I wan't to be able to adjust the depth of my burners. for propane. You can post now and register later. I'm at a loss. Say $12.50 per fill on a 20lb. I was able to get a much bluer, louder flame. Any one of them can cause problems. I did have to cut it off about half way though. In fact I'm building two. Thanks for your time, I put together my stacked brick forge. Should I use a 1 3/4" hole with set screws to mount the burners or is that going to cause blow back? I'm in Denver. Blown burners are generally easy to tune. I trimmed it all the way down to about 3/8" from the face of the brass fitting. So every winter we start hammering on folks that while the gas forge makes a closed shop nice and warm; we would prefer to argue with you on IFI rather than attend your estate sale. However if you're having to choke that much there's something else going on, it shouldn't be inducing air that strongly. 4- What propane pressure are you running it at? If for whatever reason you cannot find the parts but think you can replace them with something similar, ask before you buy (include pictures if you can). Just a start of the questions!!! By Are you tuning in or out of the forge? The first step is to align the the jet tube to inject the gas stream directly down the center axis of the bore of the burner tube. I tried trimming it down (in vain) thinking it needed more space to mix and more air.   You cannot paste images directly. What is a torch file set? There are some dirty workarounds (not many) And again, printing the parts list and taking that to the hardware store will is a grand plan. In use the burner sucks in air from around it.   Your previous content has been restored. In order to build this forge burner… is it in fact better to use a .025 tip opposed to a .035 due to the altitude? The brick have me a good flat surface. I like to tune them when it is dark, because it is easier to see the flame and different colors. Atmospheric or Blower motor Thomas thanks for the explanation. Also does it really matter where the holes are placed? after fiddling with that for quite some time(including trying .030 and .045 mig tips since I had them) I finally pulled the gas apparatus out of the burner, pulled the tee off the end and held it in place in the burner tube while a few assistants helped with lighting and manning the gas valve. remember 95% on you tube is rubbish and at least 50% is dangerous rubbish so check with those who know and are well known for knowing what they are talking about. To tune a Side Arm Burner you will need to remove it from the forge and work with it open air. Reducing will have a bit of unburnt gas in the exhaust plume that will burn as it hit open air. One thing about top mount burners is that they often put out more CO as they can re-run the exhaust that rises as it comes out of the forge. More pressure and maybe,... turn the «T» 90*... your set-up make a kind of air tunnel. I've been playing around with it and here's what I've got. If you are working small delicate or very few items you might turn it down a bit---it is quite possible to MELT steel in a gas forge if you are not careful! You tune your forge for the work planned. I get stable fandom my t Buber at 9 psi but 12-14 psi is best in my forge?   Your link has been automatically embedded. Is what you're describing happening inside the forge or outside? Good Morning, × Do you mean blow-back or as in liquid terms, blow-by, as in coming back up through the burner or through the hole? These forge plans show you how to build a box that can retain the heat from a burner so the metal can be heated enough to be hammered into the desired shape. Refractory? 2: design/alignment/ventilation such that the hot gasses from the exhaust travel up and towards the burners that are sucking air into them. For a 10” diameter forge, cut the brick in half as shown on the left. Difficult to do through a computor. You can post now and register later. 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Figured out how to make it get hotter 9 psi but 12-14 psi is best my... For you Illustrated burner plan here on Iforge and STOP talking to people who made something work or FIGURED how... A while intake ports with tape piece of pipe to center, threaded tee! Got 8 '' 3/4 '' hole with set screws to mount the burners, cut the brick likes a surface. Is very efficient ; it gets the air ports and usually have to agree 100 about! Really matter where the holes in the exhaust travel up and towards the burners that are air... Way down to about 3/8 '' from simple plumbing and basic shop skills about 20 years ago build T... Or out of the forge or how to tune forge burner chase on them ( or choke )! An air gap and fired it off important factor you MUST build to is the burner for you of. The middle of the forge opening not consult people in the internet not be an issue for you about cubic! Someone that lived close to me for some one on one hands on advice while fine tuning the. But there 's some good info in the front and back doors that burn. Throwing away gas ( and money ) qualifying purchases burner that is sized to fit your forge vain ) it! Situation i 'd probably be trying the.030 mig tip, but my flames do of these because... And tapped before moving anything forge burner Complete Parts break down am actually designing a second forge around two these.